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it or not. i was born in flint, michigan. i went to law school and became a lawyer and clerk for justice powell of the supreme court. was a lawyer and was planning to do that for my career in washington. was plucked to be general counsel of the parent company of abc back in 81. i did that for a few years. through a roundabout way i ended up becoming president of abc news. it's not something i ever saw to do. even when what to do it i did it because we need secession plant because we needed secession plan and his i thought i would do it for a couple of years. the biggest surprise was that came to absolutely love it. i've met some wonderful jobs. i've been very blessed, but been any news organization like abc news, much less running it is a rare privilege. that's part of the reason i wrote the book is, people have not had that experience, some sense what it is like. >> how do you get to go to the supreme court? what was that process? what did you learn at the supreme court that helped you run abc? >> as i said it went to michigan undergraduate, and sort of wandered into the law. i was fort
interaction with our country are to violate our laws or at best to completely ignore them. are we running the risk of inculcating a culture of lawlessness? i'd certainly like to have your thoughts on how we can avoid this problem and solve this issue by not only strengthening our country, but hopefully avoiding further demise. >> well, i think whatever way we define immigration has to include control of the border and has to include some kind of worker permit system which is actually rigorously enforced. that is i happen to think you're going to ultimately end up with some kind of system that has people who are resident but not citizen and who have a work permit but are not on a path to citizenship, because i think that's a matter of -- at some point, you've got to be practical about what is doable. but i think it's very important to insure as you build that that you're actually going to enforce the law. and i don't blame people who show up here. if we refuse to control the border and we refuse to identify who you are and we refuse to police ourselves and we refuse to do anything if we fi
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